Vit C – in a Skeptics group

A post in NZ Skeptics group – in response to Mike asking about vitamin C

I got sent home to die 8 years ago – palliative care only – terminal melanoma.
I radically changed my diet (now strict vegan, no added sugar, no refined food), and high dose vitamin C.

Haven’t had a cold or flu in that years.

There is a lot of research out there on Vit C.

It seems that in most people it is the rate limiting factor in immune system function (and for some people it can be other things).

Under stress we can use up to 100g per day.

Try it for yourself and see if it works. I did – the medical system gave me no other options.

In my case it seems to have worked.
I am still here.

I am still checking out claims.

[followed by Terry asked – did you have treatment?]

Yeah – 5 operations. Started on my left temple, then into cheek, then into neck – removed SCM complex. They gave up and sent me home after 3 tumours found on liver.

I had heard about Pauling’s work, so went digging. Eventually found a copy of the Mayo clinic study at the Otago medical library, and found that their 10g per day was 4 lots of 2.5g administered 6 hourly. Didn’t reach the threshold of maximum serum concentration (which is about 5g for most adults).

I experimented with anything that seemed to have some evidence that it might work, and didn’t cost a lot.
In my case, have settled on vegan and Vit C – heaped teaspoon in a glass of water twice daily now – was much higher when I had tumours.

I only started alternatives once the medical system ejected me.
Have had only limited contact with the medical system since.
There are serious conflicts within the systemic incentives of using money as a value measure. That the system works as well as it does is basically down to a lot of great people working within it – it seems to work (at least as well as it does) in spite of the rules, rather than because of them (David Snowden – complexity theorist, did some interesting work within IBM which parallels my experience).

[followed by]

One thing to be conscious of if you are using vit C, is that the metabolic half life of Vit C in an animal under stress is about 20 minutes. So a couple of high doses each day allow peak serum levels to be reached, but a little and often is a great idea for sustained activity. I did a quarter teaspoon in a glass of water every waking hour. Set my watch to beep on the hour, and got up and had a glass on the beep – no exceptions.
Last night went to the 40th of a lady who 4 years ago was faced with the choice of chemo and lose her baby, or look for alternative. She chose alternative, sought me out, and I worked with her (no charge – one human being helping another). Mother and child are fine.

We are exceptionally complex entities.
There is some great work being done in the medical field, particularly in the genetic realm.
There is so much conflict between the needs of individual health and the needs of the health system driven by profit (which is optimised not by cures, but by ongoing treatments).

It is a really complex situation we find ourselves in, as the market based system where scarcity is a big part of the value measured is coming into direct conflict the the power of automated systems to deliver universal abundance.

Markets do currently perform many very complex and very important functions in terms of distributed information processing and distributed governance, distributed risk management, etc; and that aspect of distributed and deeply redundant systems is very important for our long term survival.

Couple into that the eternal conflicts present in the competence hierarchies necessary for the operation of complex cooperative systems with the threat of invasion by cheating strategies that corrupt those systems into power hierarchies and cancerous growth of subsystems; and you get the beginnings of a sketch of the world we find ourselves in.

Deeply complex.
15+ levels of complex adaptive cooperative systems.
Every level with complex sets of systems to detect and counter cheating strategies on the cooperative.
Our immune systems are down there in that mix.
Every layer influencing every other layer.

With over 40 years of studying it, I am deeply conscious that what we know of the complexity is a close approximation to nothing given the indications of the complexity actually present.

The more I know, the more I know I don’t know, and the less confident I become about much of what I once thought was certain.

About Ted Howard NZ

Seems like I might be a cancer survivor. Thinking about the systemic incentives within the world we find ourselves in, and how we might adjust them to provide an environment that supports everyone (no exceptions) - see
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