Q of the Day ~ 13th Nov. ’14 ~ Innocence

What is innocence?

So many meanings to innocence.

In young children it can refer to the period before they learn about right and wrong, when they simply be.

It can refer to anyone who is unaware of the negative moral dimensions of the actions they are taking.

It can refer simply to being not guilty of the charge laid against them.

[followed by]


I think I know what you mean, and I would not give it the label innocence.
And nor would I use the term “aware of everything, everywhere”, and expansive awareness certainly.

And that state of being present, being open to possibility, is indeed a prize; and is not something taught or treasured by the educational establishment.

And certainly, in the aspect of the lack of judgement it has some similarity with innocence, and it is so much more than innocence that for me the term is inappropriate (likely to cause too much confusion in any sort of general usage).

[followed by]

For me, when I achieve it, there is a profound acceptance of all that is, the notion of ought, of judgement, disappears. There is only possibility and choice and consequence, and all of it as probabilities, nothing hard or certain.
All concern in the sense of worry goes.
As you say – there is a playful aspect to existence.

[followed by]

I’m a kinda yeah – and I guess it is a personal thing.
I tend to identify innocence more with the small child pre-judgemental phase of existence.
Getting to the post judgemental phase involves transcendence, a lot of work, and is hard won in a sense, and is also the opposite of hard won in an experiential sense when one is in it.
So for me, it simply is when it is, and it is profound, and it has some amazing attributes, and I have done a lot of self work to attain it, and it is a joy to be free of judgement when I am.
So I am reasonably confident that we are talking about the same thing, just from quite distinctly different interpretive schema.

[followed by]


Lots of things make me think our schema are quite different.

The fact that to me, meeting the survival needs of everyone changes all dynamics of human relationship – including government.
Survival needs are not the only human needs, and they are the primary one.

And yes – people are complex, and it seems possible that there are potentially infinite levels of awareness possible, and it seems possible that one can spend the rest of eternity exploring any level – so additional levels of mastery doesn’t guarantee any sort of outcome at any lower level (other individuals with less awareness of higher levels of consciousness can still have mastery in lower realms that are not necessarily trumped by any higher level of awareness).

The notion of consciousness being a primary attribute of existence makes no sense to me.
If there were any sort of conscious awareness, why would that consciousness take such a random walk through possibility space with evolution – rather than taking a direct route.

To me, the evidence for evolution is the strongest evidence against any sort of universal consciousness.

It seems clear to me that the consciousness we experience is an emergent property of the extremely complex set of systems that is a human brain in a cultural environment. We seem to be software entities experiencing a predictive software model of reality created by our brains that is kept entrained to reality by sensory data.

And I get that many (most) other people experience reality very differently from me, and I have some very clear notions of how and why that is so.

And to be clear, I am not claiming any sort of ultimate access to reality. The only access I have is via my model, just like everyone else. It’s just that my model has some levels to it that are not common, and provides some very powerful insights across many levels.

And one of the extreme frustrations is that it can take me weeks to explain things that are just instantly obvious to me.

About Ted Howard NZ

Seems like I might be a cancer survivor. Thinking about the systemic incentives within the world we find ourselves in, and how we might adjust them to provide an environment that supports everyone (no exceptions) - see
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